Congrats!

As a slight aside, I think that a lot of conservation would occur if everyone had the mpg gauge in their dash. Even conventional cars can be made to get much better gas mileage than they currently do if people could see what driving tactics waste gas and what tactics conserve gas.

I was "in the market" for a new car in November '06. My previous ride was an excellent Ford Escape.

Since I knew for the last few years that I wanted my next car to be a hybrid, and, since I wanted it to be an American product, naturally, I turned my attention to an Escape hybrid.

Guess what? In November 2006 there was no 2007 models to buy. Too soon, you might ask? No, too late! Ford already ceased production of the 2007 Escape Hybrid and started preparing the 2008 model's production! I live on Long Island (New York City metro area). No need to mention that that is one of the largest car markets in America. And yet, my Ford dealer unsuccessfuly tried for three days to find me a 2007 Escape Hybrid. I ended up buying another gas-only-powered Escape. (Because of my guilty concience, I ordered the TerraPass though.)

One wonders, what's wrong with those marketing geniuses at Ford. We, the consumers are trying to help them but they refuse to be helped...

I met a woman the other day who wanted to know how much my Honda Insight cost. She was driving a beat up Ford that was on its last legs. She really, really wanted to get an Insight. She just plain couldn't afford one. I know a lot of people like that.

Frankly, your article addresses people that have the means to buy any car they want. I'm beginning to question whether getting my TerraPass was a good idea. It is sounding more and more like a "Get out of Jail Free" eco-card for the economically advantaged (which I happen to be), and less like a force for change.

Nice write-up on the Camry hybrid, but the article misses the point! It is not about the money, it's about the environment. There are plenty of hybrids that are not worth buying [the Honda Accord] because they have excessive horsepower or they are bigger than necessary. It is time for us in the developed world to be responsible and stop using more than our share of the world's resources. "The Ugly American" was written in 1958. Sider's "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger" was written more than 25 years ago. Is anyone listening?

Driving Habits in a gas car.

I have a 2007 Ford Mustang V6 and I commute 47 miles one way. Its a mix of interstate and 45 to 55 mph secondary roads with some stop lights.

I usually average between 23 to 24 miles per gallon. Whether I baby the car or get on it, I still come up 24 to 24 mpg. I have the manual transmission though.

Mark.

I have to agree with some of Pete's points. The first thing that crossed my mind when I read this blog was, I wonder what Alicia does for a living?
I would love to be in a position to buy ANY hybrid, not to mention to be able to make heated seats a non-negotiable.
I would buy the most environmentally responsible car I could (and its associated Terrapass), if I could afford it.
Unfortunately, a used Nissan Sentra was what I got. It's not as good on gas as my old Civic was.
I wish someone would write about what car is most environmentally friendly for those on a budget.

@ Mark. Different driving style can results in a 30% difference in fuel economy. My normal driving gets 10% better mileage in my old man's Cadillac than he gets. If you baby it my keeping it in the lowest gear that runs smooth, and get on it by shifting near the redline, you should certainly find a large difference in mileage. In your case, it may be the relatively constant speed that helps your mileage, and with more stops, you'd see more of a difference. Anyway, thanks for getting the 6 and not the 8.

Dear Terrapass,

You and yours are begining to make one thing exceedingly clear: This is NOT just about reducing carbon emissions.

It's about possibly maybe hopefully reducing carbon emissions if and when it's convenient to my consumerist limitations. It's about a sound "investment" (hello? since when is buying a car, unless it's an antique that holds its value, an investment?) that's "good looking" and "fun to drive." It's about "heated seats (my one non-negotiable feature), a moon roof, and a fancy navigation system that will apparently tell me where to find all the Chinese restaurants in San Francisco if I would just ask it the right way." It's about reducing carbon emissions in a way that enables me to maintain all of the luxuries I've convinced myself are crucial to my peace of mind. Forget buying a hybrid! Just give yourself what you NEED (read: want) and make your guilt go away by buying a Terrapass!

To be fair, I am not suggesting you tout the lifestyle of the monk that flourishes merely upon the divine alone without any of life's savory and sweet accoutrements. But seriously, you're telling us not to buy a hybrid because an article in 2005 tells us it's an unsound investment without even a paragraph dedicated to the actual comparative data of fuel consumption?

I once sent a long e-mail out to anyone I thought might read it about the great idea embodied by Terrapass. Perhaps you don't realize it, or are just banking on the possibility that appealing to all cross sections of the carbon-conscious will further your cause, but good ideas sell themselves. Perhaps it is me that is disillusioned. You are, afterall, a portfolio company of a publicly traded entity that appears to realize value not only from your sales of terrapasses, but also via the Green work commissioned to offset emissions.

The veil is becoming exceedingly thin, guys.

[Editor's note: there are a few inaccuracies here that need to be addressed. TerraPass does not "realize value...via the Green work commissioned to offset emissions." It's not entirely clear what this means, but the implication seems to be that we realize a return on the carbon reduction projects, which is 100% untrue. Further, the suggestion of a link between TerraPass and the shareholders of Greenshift is, to say the least, wildly overstated. Greenshift provided some seed capital to TerraPass and is a minority shareholder, along with a number of other investors. Finally, it pretty much is all about reducing carbon emissions. That's all we do.]

Following Pete and Erin's great posts--Isn't it more conservationally-minded to buy used cars (and thus keep down the demand for new cars...car manufacturing=more materials, CO2, etc., etc.)? I know it's not what our consumer culture wants us to do, but, especially for city driving, I'll take my nine year old civic over the up-to-the-minute hybrid any day.

"I know that the most economically efficient means of reducing carbon is to buy a TerraPass."

Ummm, the best carbon is no carbon. Drive less, drive a hybrid, bike, etc... Only if you can't avoid the carbon load should you then buy a carbon offset (from TerraPass, or perhaps one of their not-for profit competitors). The idea that you can just buy all the Hummers you want and offset them is going to get us nowhere.

When we had twin girls three years ago we maxed out the seating capacity of our Volvo station wagon. We signed up on the waiting list for the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. 18 months later (!) we got the Highlander hybrid. What a great car (its not "really" a truck). Room for 7, expected level of comfort, terrific immediate power and it returns 24 MPG in our urban driving route. This might not sound so great but in the same use the Volvo returned 16 MPG. 50% better gas mileage, more seating, V8 power from a V6 with 4 cylinder fuel consuption, super ultra low emissions, who could ask for more? Well maybe a TerraPass too! Just goes to show how technology and choice can result in tangible benefits to consumers. I know that Toyota is listening. Maybe that's why they are on their way to being America's choice for transportation.

I realize what people are saying about hybrid prices.
But the difference between my '05 Civic Hybrid (5spd)
and a luxuriously appointed gas Civc was covered by
the tax incentives, almost $4,300. I get about 50-55mpg for 8 months a year, and then with studded snow tires it goes down to 40-45mpg during winter (I change the tires if no snow is around, but that's not the case this year in Denver). Plus a Terrapass, of course. But as more people buy hybrids hopefully the price will lower and the availability will rise.
I do use transit when possible too, and every bit helps.

1. If you can't afford a hybrid, buy for gas mileage first and creature comforts second. I drive a Scion xA, which has an EPA rating of 31 city and 38 highway.
2. Not driving is always better for the environment than driving, regardless of what or how you drive. I am sure there are Hummer drivers in my community whose transportation footprint is smaller than mine, because they drive less than I do and have more people in the car. I'm not going to get sanctimonious with them.
3. The average person can afford a $50 Terrapass a lot more easily than he can afford a $25,000 hybrid.
4. Doing something is always preferable to doing nothing. "Every little bit helps" is a good message that encourages people to help. "Nothing you do is good enough" is a bad message that reinforces the misconception that you have to live a totally ascetic lifestyle, devoid of creature comforts, to benefit the environment. That message encourages people to say, "Fine -- if nothing I do is good enough, I'll do nothing."

I appreciate the sentiment behind Alicia's post, but I'll echo what a few other folks have asked: what exactly does she do for a living that she can afford a new 2007 Toyota hybrid (while living in San Fran no less)? Driving a hybrid is still a flight of fancy for many of us, guys. Gushy posts like these only serve to frustrate those who have sincere motivations and light checking accounts.

Cayenne hit it right on the head. And the issue becomes even more complex when you factor in the carbon load of using a car for only 100,000 miles. My 1989 Mercedes Diesel gets 30 Canadian Miles to the Canadian Gallon but has gone 450,000 kilometres. And has another 300 or 400 to go. My guess is that overall, it has less carbon load than the new hybrid. My farm country rough roads low consumption car is a VW Jetta Diesel which is uncomfortable, has no moon roof and no amenities and does not really fit me, but the damn this is light (less carbon load in manufacturing) and 48 canadian miles to the canadian gallon. Combined with my Terra Pass I feel a bit more comfortable, but not much. So in my spare time I work with a group of parents who are trying to slow down traffic in residential communities following the European Slow City model and increase use of public transportation. Terra Pass has certainly helped motivate that, but the Hybrid analysis did not inspire me.

My wife's Subaru has an MPG gauge. When it's in real-time mode, it's a little quirky (doesn't provide a steady read-out) but it was enough to make my point to my wife: driving at 55mph uses less fuel than driving 65mph.

Perhaps it's self-evident to some people, but not all. I think people see "25mpg city/30mpg highway" and think that the faster you go, the better the gas mileage (you get there faster, so you're burning less gas). Of course, it doesn't hold up on closer scrutiny, but people don't seem to question it. What they ignore is the physics of wind resistance and how it takes 8 times as much power to go twice as fast. Using her Subaru on the NJ Turnpike, we drove at 55mph and saw fuel efficiency between 35mpg and 40mpg. At 65mph, it dropped to 25mpg to 30mpg. Ignore whether the gauge is absolutely accurate, the relative difference makes the case. For every 100 miles driven at 55mph (as opposed to 65mph), she would save almost 1 gal of gas. If you drive 12,000mpy and 40% of it is highway driving, that's 50 gallons of gas per year.

Hybrids have their role and I'm really looking forward to a plug-in diesel hybrid, but, as one poster noted, we all can't afford new cars. That's why I think it's important to get the speed limits back down to 55mph and enforced, in addition to encouraging people just to drive less.

Great discussion, everyone. I am always impressed by the signal to noise ratio on this forum.
As a Prius and Terrapass owner, I'll say I was happy to be able to afford a hybrid, but honestly, Prius starts at under 22k, and a lot of decent (nonhybrid) cars are around 20k. For me, especially since I tend to keep my cars for a long long time, the extra price will pay for itself many times over, and the harm to the atmosphere will be minimized.
If you have to drive (and the layout of cities like mine effectively require it), a hybrid will hurt the atmosphere less than the traditional car. Yes, I'm well aware that biking would be tons better, but it's not an option for me.
As far as affordability issue goes, maybe we can get Congress to enact the Amory Lovins (and others'?) idea about "feebates" - helping folks to sell their old, relatively dirty car by giving them a significant rebate on a new clean, perhaps hybrid one. The "fee" portion, the money for the rebate, is provided by a purchase fee from the least-efficient car buyers. Someone's purchase of a new Hummer is subsidizing your purchase of a Camry hybrid, in effect. It also encourages folks to get the oldest, most polluting cars off the road.

Great discussion... but why not think in terms of changing your lives so you can do without a car? You can do it... you need to choose very carefully the place where you live, the way you earn money, your modes of recreation. We chose Corvallis, Oregon... super bike-friendly, relatively mild climate, all necessary services within bike range, scores of hiking and biking trails nearby. A car is not an essential part of living in 2007, and the elimination of your car allows you to do many other positive things... downsize your living space, join a community garden, use the money you would spend on a car to use public transportation (in Corvallis the buses use biodiesel fuels)... and on and on. Think about it!! Kirk

My friend and I have identical Priuses 'though hers is two years younger than mine. Her mileage is consistently 8-10 mpg less than mine. (I average around 45, she averages around 35 - in town.) She DOES have a heavy foot, she DOES fly up to stop signs and slam on the brakes, she NEVER coasts - even when rolling down a steep hill, and she "warms it up" by letting it idle. (We Prius owners know that isn't necessary. Nor is it necessary with most cars - a horrible contributor to pollution.) My point is that driving habits DO definitely affect the amount of gas we consume!

For the People under a budget and cannot afford a new fancy hybrid, there are many eco friendly options for you. For example: Honda Fit (14K) Toyota Yaris (12K) Nissan Versa (13K). They both get stellar fuel economy and are fun little cars.

One thing to note- light cars get great mileage! Every car I have owned I do as much weight reduction as possible and keep as little in my car as possible to help my mileage.

First - congrats on your new Camery. I hope to get a second hybrid soon and it's one of three models in the running.
Second - I take issue with "unsound investment" theory. In April, I'll have had my Prius for 3 years. A few days ago I was on the blue book site (kbb.org) and found the retail value to be $1500 more than what I originally paid for it. I'm talking the whole value of the check I put down - including delivery fees and taxes. New cars generally aren't thought of as investments and it's been said that a new car looses 10% of it's value the moment you drive it off the lot. With the Prius, after a tax credit and three years of gasoline savings, I haven't depreciated at all. That's not true of most gas-only vehicles.

I, too, am wondering about all the people on this board who seem to think Alicia is too wealthy to be considered normal just because she bought a $27K car. Huh? That's a payment of $450 a month with not a penny down on a 6-year loan @ 6% (but it's probably lower than that for a new car). If you've got an old $2k trade-in, it's $414. That's not totally out-of-the-question extravagant for a car. Having worked in the auto retail business for awhile, I have seen plenty of people with bad credit pay a lot more than that for slugs that couldn't touch an '07 Camry. My Insight is 6 years old now and it's got at least another 10 in it from my perspective. Maybe by then, electric cars will be back on the market and for sale this time. If at all possible, I'll buy a new one.

Ok, I know I'm going to get bashed in this forum, but I'm currently driving a 1995 Suburban 350 V8 (with a Terrapass). I get 15 mpg around town, 17 on the road. Yes, I need a large vehicle. I drive a motorcycle that gets 40+ mpg when I'm alone, which is about 50% of my yearly mileage.

I've been in the market for a new vehicle for a while, but am waiting for a plug in hybrid SUV. The closest I've found so far is the Highlander or R400H both of which are quite expensive, more than I can afford.

What I really want is Chevrolet's new hybrid SUV Suburban, 24mpg in the city, 17 or so on the road. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be making it to the market any time soon. A 50% increase in mileage around town (about 80% of my mileage) would meet Bush's goal announced last night of 20% decrease in gas usage for the next 10 years, but it's not a plug in Hybrid.

The other vehicle I'm looking at is the Saturn Vue hybrid, which in 2009 is supposed to be a plug in. It's definately smaller than what I have now, but still can seat 7, but I'll have to see what the long term costs of ownership are once it makes it to market. It's supposed to be a fully electric drive, 40 mile LiOn battery, and 30+ mpg.

If anyone really wants a high mileage vehicle you should consider riding a motorcycle. Take the MSF training, which is excellent, wear all the appropriate gear, helmet, gloves, and a jacket, ALL THE TIME, even during the summer, and get a 600 or 750cc bike and you'll get 45+ mpg. New ones even have catalytic converters.

Oh, forgot to add, the reason I want a plug in is that I'm buying my electricity from Reliant Energy's Renewable plan, which is 100% wind!

I have read several different articles and I believe they are a big step in the right direction. They are the most efficient cars that we have avaliable at this time. There is still one question that nobody has been able to snswer. When the large battery pack in the vehicle has to be replaced (they are expected to last 10 years), or when the car is at the end of its life, the battery pack cannot be recycled or reclaimed. Even though we have helped to keep the air clean we have created toxic waste.

BB:

What's the basis for your claim that hybrid battery packs "cannot be recycled or reclaimed"? I've never read that anywhere else and it seems highly unlikely to me.

Reading all the responses I started thinking about why we have had such a hard time getting progressive ideas into the mainstream. There are so many like-minded people who simply won't realize that we are better off sticking together than squabbling over such petty differences. We're all on the same side, why can't we come together and do something positive?

I personally think that anyone who does something positive for the environment is doing a good thing. If you feel that saving the environment is good, then why do you bash Alicia for buying a hybrid (high mileage and LOW emission) vehicle? The fact that she does not want to live in a durt and grass hut and eat grass and lentils does not mean she is a bad person. She is still doing her part, and by that I mean more than 99% of the population, to save the environment and non-renewable resources.

Nobody in this world NEEDS a car. We chose lifestyles and jobs that require us to have them but we make that choice. If we wanted to live in a world that shuns technology and relies only upon the land beneath our feet for survival then we will need to get rid of about 4.5 billion people first. If I make a concious effort to live my life with technology as simply and discretely as I can, am I less a person than those living Corvallis?

I live in Los Angeles because my girlfriend and I work in the film industry, Corvallis (not to pick on you, but I'm using it as an example here) is not an option for us. We both bicycle and use public transportation as much as possible, but it is not always possible or reasonable to do so. We have friends all over town, we work all over town, we go camping often, we don't like taking potted plants and 4x8 sheets of FSC certified plywood home on the bus. We own 2 cars, one sits for weeks at a time w/o use but occasionally we both need to drive on the same day. Our main car is a 2000 Saab wagon which we purchased because it has a lot of room for camera gear and gets decent fuel economy (we average 25mpg) and has LOW emissions. I used to have a motorcycle that got 45mpg that I used for 95% of my transportation (when bicycling and public transportation was not an option) but 9 months ago I was broadsided by a 5000 pound Jeep Grand Cherokee and I'll never be the same again. This could have happened on my bicycle just as easily and I decided to replace my motorcycle with something safer that has side airbags. Not as a luxury, but as a feature to keep myself alive a little longer. Am I a bad person because of it?

Please remember when you comment that although you may be doing a lot for the environment, so are the rest of us. Just because we are not at the extreme level you are does not make us bad people. An 18 year old diesel polutes exponentially more than a more modern gas powered vehicle, even factoring the manufacturing of the new vehicle. I do thank you for doing your part for the environment, even if your methods seem a little odd to me.

I still mourn my old Honda Civic - it consistently got 40 mpg highway, 38 mpg in town. Of course, I am a single woman so I don't need a big car.

Still, "lifestyle" is a choice. When I lived in the city, I chose to do without a car, even though it was inconvenient at times. Seattle isn't easy to bus in. Nowadays, the same choice is more convenient - there are "shared" cars - you rent time as needed; and the public transit is better.

I question Alicia's idea that gas cost average of $3.66 a gallon over the next five years is high. I suspect we will soon wish that was all it was.

It also does make me wince when anyone blithely assumes anyone can afford what they can, even if it is not extravagant. I wish I could even afford a Terra Pass. I do the best I can.

And why do you say name and email are optional for a post, when they are not?

When I was in the market for a new car, I looked at Hybrids but settled on a VW TDI golf. Why? Well, it gets equal if not better fuel mileage than my friends Prius, is a simpler technology, cost less to purchase, no battery bank to replace, can (and mine does) use biodiesel. I see hybrids as just relatively efficient gas cars.

I was concerned by this statement from the author: "I know that the most economically efficient means of reducing carbon is to buy a TerraPass." No, the most energy efficient means of reducing carbon is to use less, or use more ecological alternatives. I appreciate the important rola that carbon offsets can play in saving our plantet. But I am concerned that statements like these enable the user to aviod responsibility. Isn't it similar to the Civil War-era tradition where men of means payed to send a proxy in their place to fight for them? I think that the future will prove that carbon offsets a la TerraPass will only be effective if we consume and emit less, and use carbon offsets for absolutely unavoidable purposes. Respectfuly,
Matt

J-
$3.66 per gallon MIGHT happen in the next few years. But as an analyst who studies the energy markets--including biofuels--I think lower gas prices are much more likely over the next five years at least. If you're considering a car purchase, $3/gallon or even a touch less is a reasonably conservative estimate for deciding on the fuel savings associated with a hybrid.

That certainly is not good news for those pushing alternative fuel vehicles, but I think it does highlight the fact the most economically efficient approach to reducing climate change is to achieve reductions elsewhere in the economy (e.g. industrial efficiency, biogas digesters, and encouraging wind power). Read -- buy a TerraPass to offset all the emissions that you can't reduce via reasonable lifestyle changes.

At the sametime, we as voters should also be pushing for policies that make Detroit (and Toyota and Honda) to increase the fuel economy of the cars and light trucks they produce -- and that's highlighted by all the good folks who mentioned that they don't have good choices when it comes to buying a new vehicle.

Quick reply to BB: hybrid battery packs are made to be recycled, they are being recycled now, and they will be recycled in the foreseeable future. You can strike that one particular concern from your list.

I agree that efficient diesels are also a good choice, except for the much-higher smog forming emissions than gasoline hybrids.

Fiver and John, are you sure about the hybrid battery packs being recycled? Hybrids started going mainstream around 2000 so if they are already having to replace the very expensive battery bank ($3000) then I am really losing hope in them. They were expected to last 10 years. I will just ask my Toyota dealer how many battery packs they have replaced on the older Prius models, and what can be done with the old pack. Thanks!

I also would be interested to kow how and where the battery packs can be recycled. Our 2005 Prius has only about 8700 miles on it (and a TerraPass, of course), but the ultimate demise of the battery was a big concern for us. And the salesman couldn't answer that question.
Also: Does anyone know the current status of the "Tax Break" for large pickups/SUVs?

It is probably true, as one commentator here said, that there is a breakeven point where the ecological benefits of NOT buying a newer car (run that old sucker into the ground and save all the carbon involved in building even the most environmentally-friendly new car) is no longer valid. But I suspect (I have no math to prove it) that, except for the worst of the fuel guzzlers, that point would be past 300 thousand miles. I'd like to see a serious analysis of this that takes into to account all the carbon released by all the driving of employees traveling to work to build that car at the auto company, the subcontractor's, the distributors, the dealers, the advertising company that Toyota uses, etc.
It could turn out to be wiser to run the old ones really into the ground FIRST.
--------------------------------
Personally, currently running a Toyota Corolla that gets about 34mph highway and 25-27 in town, I'll at least wait for plug-in hybrids that will let you run the first 20 miles of the day on pure battery power and THEN still have the gas milage performance as the current crop of hybrids.
These are just around the corner I believe: I'm no fan of Bush but in the State of the Union message last night perhaps you noticed he signed on to the plug in hybrid and tied it to our national security. GM has announced it's intention to produce one (no date given as far as I remember)>
The first major manufacturer who gets a plug-in-hybrid to the showroom will have them backordered before they get there.

A huge percent of american driving is covered during that first 20 miles of pure electric travel.

(I completely understand that even that first 20 miles is not completely carbon free -- but it's far less carbon releasing as 30% of our electric generation is does not release greenhouse gases. About 19% is nuclear, about 10% is hydro, and about 1% is other renewable.)

And, Yeah, there are millions of decent environmentally concerned Americans who don't have and are not likely to have the option of buying a new low carbon emmitting car of any kind. We need to get realistic, cheap, light, all electric urban vehicles, both two wheeled and four wheeled, which are totally technologically viable and available out there as other alternatives. Government incentives anyone?

We may be the only country where 100,000 miles is considered a lot on a car. Even the most basic regular maintenance can bring most cars way over 200,000 and even 300,000 but the american mindset has been so well conditioned to accommodate the automotive industry that keeping a car for that long seems inconceivable, and certainly unsavory. And we wonder why our global footprint makes bigfoot look like a smurf!

BB: thanks for the reply. I'm a Prius owner, and the Toyota dealerships will recycle the batteries - they are actually valuable, as they contain nickel, and I understand the dealerships get ~$200 "bounty" for them.
And: no, they're not wearing out yet - there are reports of a few Prii out there have 200k miles and they're still going strong. They _are_ designed to last the life of the car, and are warrantied for 8 year / 100k miles, more than anything else on the car. What happens to cause recycling at this early stage is typically an accident that breaks the battery casing or damages it enough to worry the service folks. Yes the packs are pretty well protected, under the rear seat, but a bad hit in the right place can do it...

Wow, What a passionate subject! I'm a heating contractor. I drive a box truck that gets about 13mpg.I recently invested in a divice that is water injection that is supposed to make it get 20mpg. So far that has no been the case but I haven't given up on it. A side benefit is dramatically reduced emissions. There's a lot of info out there about back yard guys making hydrogen hybrids like tis.
I have a nitch market installing geosource heatpumps that are 3-4 times more efficient over the life of a home. I've never thought that carbon offsets were the full answer and even boarder line on a way the ease a persons guilty conscience in some cases.
I also heard at Solfest 05 (Solar Living Institue)that 25% of the carbon used in a cars life was used in the manufacturing process. A good arguement for the run em into the ground folks like me.
I've also been hearing about a tree that's supposed to grow 10-20 feet in the first year. Now that's a lot of carbon off set. I have an idea, why doesn't Terrapass buy me a couple hundred of those trees to plant here on my 5 acre property.
To Marc, Did you know that by the time electricity reaches your home panel it is only 30% efficient. And then you have to ask yourself what source was used to generate that 30% eff. juice. I watched "Who Killed The Electric Car". I came away with a lot of mixed emotions from outrage to it was never the right technology to begin with. But it was a bridge.
To the biodieselers, thats great if you use waste oil and make your own. But I've also heard that for every gallon of biodiesel made .8 gallons of petrol was burned to produce it. Not enough savings when you consider the value of food energy you have taken off the market.
Seriously I admire anyone that is doing anything to reduce carbon emisions in anyway they feel is right for them.

I love, love, love my Prius. We got it after our Ford Aspire(45 mpg when I got it and 35 mpg eight years later)finally croaked. That car was made back when Ford still thought that gas mileage was something that consumers cared about. In fact, I remember, anytime anyone in my family bought a new or used car one of the first questions asked was - "what kind of gas mileage does it get?" If it was any less than 27-35 - you hung your head in shame and mumbled it. While this is a little bit of an aside, it illustrates a point - the majority of Americans now value looks above anything sensible such as gas mileage. As a result I was forced to buy a foreign-made car which coming from the Midwest is equivalent to spitting at your mother - thoroughly disrespectful to where you came from, and it also was something that, while growing up, I swore I'd never do.
Now I have a car that is reliable, safe (by pure dumb luck –we've been hit two times and one of those was by a steel-bumpered Jeep Cherokee – and the car performed like a champ), stylish, and most importantly fuel efficient. Priuses wouldn't seem so expensive if we as a society stopped buying new cars every 2-3 years. We're not particularly well-off and it doesn't cost anymore than my husband's old Dodge Neon when it was new. We also can afford it b/c we have only one car, live in a modest house (not an energy-hogging McMansion), and take public transportation whenever possible. This is even with a house mortgage's worth of student debt. Plus there is new study out that says that owning a hybrid is more cost effective in the long run.
So my message is: Shame on American car companies for not beating out Toyota; Manage your priorities in life; Get over yourself; and Don't suppose that I am a wealthy elitist just because I drive a Prius.

I agree with those that say the best way to reduce carbon emissions is to eliminate miles driven. I operate a vanpool in to downtown New Orleans and I am proud to say that my vanpool eliminates nearly 100,000 miles driven per year!

I've owned a Prius since October 2005 and I like it very much. I drive about 30,000 miles per year highway and city and it averages about 45 mpg; not the advertised higher values. I made a downpayment of $5000 and am paying my credit union about $450 per month for 60 months. It's current blue book trade-in value is $2000 less than the remaining loan balance. So notwithstanding the gas mileage improvement (more than 2X my 1996 Tacoma) it's not cheap to own. Obviously my high usage is a factor.

I am impressed by the amount of posts to this forum since I posted a few days ago. I realize the point I was struggling to make when I read the TerraPass tag line:

"Fight global warming and fund clean energy with TerraPass...

[it made me realize I wanted to throw in a sarcastic remark:]

... while still maintaining your yuppie lifestyle."

That's my point in a sarcastic nutshell. I lived in the Bay Area for 12 years, and I saw an awful lot of really well-paid upper middle class self-justification going on. I know. I did it, too. I still do, to some degree. It's not something I admire in myself.

I am beginning to worry that TerraPass is just a cover for a Silicon Valley startup, with overpaid salaries, free soda, and a foosball table in the break room. I hope I'm wrong, but... in addition to being at ground zero in Silicon Valley for many years, I've also spent considerable time recently assisting my wife who works for true non-profits, where mission supercedes financial gain as a fundamental component of the culture. I've learned what a mission-driven culture 'feels' like.

Something about TerraPass doesn't have the same 'feel' as these mission-driven organizations.

I am worried that buying my own TerraPass is my own "Get Out Of Jail Free" eco-card, which I bought into without looking too deeply into the details. I'm going to take a long, hard look at TerraPass when my renewal comes up. I hope to find a core of idealism in the organization, and not just a fancy web site.

Without that idealism, the likelihood that my TerraPass money will actually be used to effectively reduce carbon emissions isn't very high.

So. To my point. Alicia's article made me question TerraPass's bona fides, as well as my own motivations for buying a TerraPass. Alicia sounds like a pretty cool person, someone I might even have befriended while I lived in CA. But she's also a classic BayArean, and I've learned not to trust that culture when it comes to altruism.

I hope I'm wrong, because I love the idea of TerraPass.

Prove me wrong, guys. Show me the passion underlying the slick web site, which results in concrete carbon reduction when I give you my money. Because I will happily give you my money when you do that.

What the planet needs now is a plug in Hybrid vehicle with a diesel engine so that you can use 100% bio diesel when not using 100% electric. This would be great for the evironment!

Awesome response.

OK. You're suffering. I guess that's all I wanted to know. :) [The tea was a nice touch]

Seriously, what you've just described is *exactly* what I wanted to hear. You're right. Quality before idealism, which is why I will still question your bona fides, because that's what I need to know in order to ensure that my money is going in the right place.

I'll be looking at any third party analysis I can get my hands on when my pass runs out, and I expect I'll like what I find. I'll check out the Grist article. Are there others?

I really do like your web site. Keep up the good work.

I've been thinking about a couple of things you said:

"TerraPass has been built on no money and no sleep, much like the Silicon Valley start-ups that you dislike."

I was there during the time when the no-money/no-sleep startup was common. I liked those companies. I watched that change into a pig-greedy exploitation of venture capital, with little or no underlying products. Build up a "big idea", sell out, cash your options, and move on. That, unfortunately, is now how I think about most Silicon Valley startups.

"I care about global warming because I'm concerned for the future of the planet. That doesn't strike me as an altruistic concern."

The definition of altruism: Unselfish concern for the needs or interests of others.

If you are saying that what you're doing is selfish, then you can treat it that way, if you'd like. However, this is also a common theme that I encountered in Silicon Valley. The "enlightened self-interest" way of thinking. Are you falling into that trap?

There is nothing wrong with being unselfish.

Hi, folks. This is going to be a compilation post of responses to multiple posts (I'll give their numbers). Here goes:

#6 Erin: You asked about the greenest cars for those on a budget. You didn't mention whether you were interested in new or used, but here're my suggestions for new cars after considerable reading on the subject on behalf of carshopping friends. It would be more complicated to explain my thoughts on used options so I'll only do that if you ask.

The Toyota Yaris has close to the highest available MPG ratings for a conventional gasoline car and its starting MSRP is just $11,150. It's also very safe for its size when equipped with the side airbag option, which I highly recommend in this era of massive trucks and SUVs.

The Honda Fit achieves nearly as high MPG ratings as the Yaris and has gotten better overall reviews but it's starting MSRP is $13,850. Fortunately, side airbags are standard on the Fit.

The Nissan Versa is larger than the other two with a bit lower MPG ratings. It's starting MSRP is between those of the Yaris and the Fit and it has the best Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash test ratings of the three (side airbags are standard). As I understand it, Nissans in general are less reliable than Toyotas and Hondas, however.

All three vehicles received a "6" on the EPA's Air Pollution Score scale, "10" being the best, which is pretty good. For comparison, the Prius scores either a 9.5 or an 8 depending on where you buy it (as you may already know, some states, most prominently California, have tighter air pollution regs than the nation as a whole).

#9 cm: Regarding the "new vs. used" question, it seems to me to be complicated. As Adam pointed out in #18, manufacturing accounts for a relatively small percentage of a vehicle's lifetime greenhouse gas emissions and new models in general emit much less air pollution and offer more safety features than older cars, which are valid considerations it seems to me. Of course, the greenhouse gases emitted during manufacturing are not the only ecological costs to buying a new car; you also have to consider the materials used and the toxic chemicals produced during manufacture. Has anyone studied the subject in detail? The Institute for Lifecycle Environmental Assessment titled has a summary for a report titled "Automobiles: Manufacture Vs. Use" on their site which concludes:

This [Life Cycle Assessment], as well as many others like it, clearly indicate that the bulk of environmental impacts from automobiles occur during the use stage. The implicit message is that if you can replace your car with one that is more energy efficient, chances are high that you truly will be reducing your overall environmental impact. However, if you are a person who considers toxic releases more important than energy use, then it is wiser to hold on to your existing car, in order to avoid promoting the manufacture of a new one.

Then there's this consideration: If only a tiny few people buy more fuel-efficient new vehicles such as gas-electric hybrids when manufacturers bring them to market, what financial incentive will manufacturers have to continue to make such vehicles and improve the technology in order to achieve even greater gains in the future? Consequently, I'm not going to knock those who buy a new fuel-efficient, low-air pollution emissions vehicle in order to reduce their energy use and greenhouse gas emissions, particularly if they're trading in an old car that's become costly to maintain. As much as I'm pushing for a world that's at least much less dependent on personal vehicles, given development patterns in the U.S., it would be a real hardship for a great many people to go carfree (I know, I did it for a bit over 6 years) unless/until we make some dramatic cultural changes first.

#13 Emily: Though I applaud you for buying one of the more fuel-efficient conventional cars available in recent years, I'm sorry to say that the Scion Xa didn't score very well on the EPA's Air Pollution Score scale I previously mentioned, rating only a "2" out of "10." Toyota has discontinued the hatchback Xa and I've read they will soon introduce a new sedan designated the Xd; I'm assuming it will score at least a "6," but we'll have to wait and see.

#19 Kirk: We can't all move to some place that makes it really easy to be carfree, and, even if we could, those places would cease to be so wonderful if we all did. IMO, those of us who care about these issues need to deepen our roots where we are and do our darndest to move our home communities in the direction of sustainability with all possible speed, not take off for some place that's already farther along that path.

#34 Mark: Are you aware of the predictions that we are at or very near the peak of global oil production? If they're correct, $3.66 a gallon could look like an incredible bargain well within the operational lifetime of any vehicle bought today.

#36 BB: As far as I'm aware, the only hybrid model that has had any significant problems with its battery pack is the Honda Insight equipped with a manual transmission--which just happens to be what I have. In fact, Honda recently announced that they'd extended the warranty on the Integrated Motor Assist battery module to 150,000 miles on 2000-4 models manual Insights. Mine, which I bought used with 104,000 miles on it for $7,500, has 140,000 miles on it now, and my battery pack still seems to be going strong. Still, it's nice to know I have nearly another 10,000 miles of coverage.

Regarding the recycling of hybrid battery packs, here's a Q&A from the Union of Concerned Scientists:

HybridCenter Q&A: So what about those batteries?

Q: Can you help me understand what happens to old hybrid batteries? Can they be recycled? What is the cost to dispose of them safely? Are there outlets for disposal conveniently available? What is the environmental impact with recycling these huge batteries? With a battery life expectancy of 8 years and a person that usually keeps a car for 10 -12 years this will be an issue I might likely face.

A: We continue to get a lot of questions about hybrid batteries and their environmental impact. As we noted before, even taking into account the larger batteries, sound studies show hybrid vehicles as an overall environmental winner. An earlier blog by our research director David Friedman noted that hybrid batteries are designed to last for the life of the vehicle, and experience to date indicates that they will probably last that long. Here's a recent piece from MSNBC that gives more detail. They may only be warranted for 80-100,000 miles, but bear in mind that this is better than most warranties out there, and most vehicles don't fall apart the minute the warranty is up.

As for disposal, Toyota is a good barometer of how hybrid batteries are dealt with: "Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 'bounty' for each battery."

So while the automakers continue to look for new ways to increase the energy output and decrease the environmental footprint of hybrid batteries, rest assured that the current technology is still a net winner for the environment. However, we are going to keep our eyes peeled to make sure their promises of recycling are fulfilled so that hybrids can stay net winners.

Great to read everyone's comments - it's important to weed this out together - the important thread is that everyone is here because we have a common concern and are trying to figure out how to deal with it...so I want to put in a plug for the car I drive - a 2003 VW Jetta TDI that I have added an extra tank so it can run on used veggie oil (see www.greasecar.com). I got the car on ebay, the tank and labor to put it in cost about $1600 total, I get used oil from local restaurants and filter it with a homemade crank and filters made out of old jeans in the garage. We have more than made back our money and while not a perfect solution by any means I feel it is the right direction environmentally. Our Jetta has gotten up to 52 mpg on diesel highway and from 43 - 50 mpg on the veggie oil. It's been a lot easier than I first thought and there are many people out there to support you on your way if interested. I encourage others to do it.

Alicia -

The comments on this thred have gotten completely out of control. Can we please focus on what is important here... What color is the interior?

Nobody has any clue what car to buy to "help the environment" and, even if someone did, contrary to popular belief, one person can't make a difference. You are already doing enough for the environment working at Terrapass - personally, I think that is enough good environmental karma to drive a Hummer.

Terrapass is the only sensible idea in the entire enviro-fanatic movement. Kudos to you and your team.

Nobody has ever given me credit for buying a Suzuki Swift (geo metro) better gas mileage than hybirds- cmall but comfortbale interior. I am not knocking hybrids, I was recently in the market for a new pick up but couldn't find a hybrid pickup here in green city of seattle- so I bought a Toyota Tacoma. I did get the 2wd standar tranny model, and of course a terra pass. Since I drive neither vehicle more than 8000 miles a year I think I do pretty good. Of course,I am driving one of my scooters all summer long!
My only complaint about terra pass is they don't rate my 1979 MG MGB. Oh well!